Barrel question

[Melvin]

Chocolate, vanilla, carmel, spices, honey, coffee, cigar-- does it really come from the barrels? What has the most influence, the forrest, whether its French or American, or is it really the toast of the barrel that enhances those flavors? Help?

[Peter Marks]

Excellent question Melvin. The influence of oak on wine can be significant and quite complex. As you point out, some of the main flavors of oak will depend upon the oak's origin, production techniques (aging, coopering, toasting, etc.), use in winemaking, plus the size and age of the barrel.

All things being equal, most experts will say the flavor of French oak (FO) is more restrained than American oak (AO). FO often contributes refined notes of baking spices and light toast. On the other hand, AO can be more obvious showing more sweetness, vanilla and sometimes a woody-sawdusty or dill-like character.

The differences between FO and AO used to be obvious because AO in the past would be kiln-dried and steam-bent (as is still done today for whiskey production) instead of air-dried and fire-bend. Today, most quality-minded winemakers insist upon using AO coopered in the traditional French fashion - i.e. fire-bent, as well as making sure the AO is air-dried for 2-3 years prior to being made into a barrel. This has significantly reduced the flavor differences between FO and AO. The particular forest from which the oak comes from will create even more subtle influences on the wine, and this generally has to do with the growth rate of the tree as determined by its environment.

The final toast level of the oak has a big impact on the wine's flavor, with light toast providing understated notes of spice and toasted bread, while a heavy toasted barrel showing more bold, smoky-toasty character.

Certainly the winemaker's oak decisions factor mightily into the final flavors - how much new oak, the size of the barrel, how long in barrel, when the wine is introduced into the barrel, etc.

That all said, I would say the flavor or oak is more obvious when the barrel has medium-high to high toast levels. Origin of oak is less of an influence when the toast level is high. On the other hand, heavily toasted or not, oak barrels contribute greatly to the mouthfeel of the wine (adding a creamy richness and softness), even when older oak barrels are used.

In the end, all the flavors produced from oak aging include coffee, mocha, spice, clove, cinnamon, smoke, caramel, allspice, cocoa, vanilla, dill, and toast, just to name a few. Are these flavor derived entirely from oak? Probably not. The combination of oak, wine and the mystery of Mother Nature all create these unique flavors.

[Arlyss]

Wow, I love the fact that Peter Marks responded to your question. I learned something new myself, just reading what he said. So. if oak is heavily toasted, the origin is less important. I tell my tours that oak is 'terrior driven' as much as wine is. Oak from one region may be different than oak from another region. It's nice to know more details, even though we will probably never be asked these questions.

[Peter Marks]

Hi Arlyss,

It's my humble opinion that the heavier the toast, the less likely one can clearly identify the origin, but I'm sure there are some oak experts in this area that would disagree. Like training your palate to identify a grape's variety and origin, you can probably learn to identify oak. However, just as "extreme winemaking" (very ripe grapes, heavy use of ML and/or oak) can obscure a wine's identity, I believe heavy toast can obscure the oak's origin. Nonetheless, this would be a good question for any of the Icon winemakers.

[Melvin]

Thank you Peter and Arlyss for your response on the discussion on barrels. It wil always be interesting to me how flavors develops by the nature of the grape and the toast and/or barrel of where it comes from. I feel this is a question that most people who are learning about wines would likely to know.

[Larry O'Brien]

Just reviewing some threads as I get familiar with this site. Though I am positive that serious wine/oak geeks can perceive oak origins through organaleptic analysis, does this fact not indicate the over use of oak?

[Brian Koziol]

Like Larry - I'm just getting started with working with the site. One of the difficult perceptions of oak is the combination of oak (species, age and percentage of new) these days.

[Melvin]

Hi Larry, sorry for not knowing much on wine aging but what is, organaleptic analysis?

[Larry O'Brien]

It is a triple word score if you can get it on a Scrabble board! Further, it is your combined senses of sight, smell, taste and texture.

[Joel Reese]

Thank you for that fantastic word, Larry! My guests will love the term, "organaleptic"
on my future tours down in Temecula. Gracias, Joel

[Larry O'Brien]

My pleasure. It almost sounds naughty doesn't it?

[Peter Marks]

FYI, I believe the correct spelling is "organoleptic"
You don't want to lose any Scrabble points!